Last Men, or the phenomenology of the camp

Just a link to some video,  found at American Samizdat.   And following on from here.  Update:  um, alright.  Who says we have to let them vote?  In an entirely more frivolous vein (or sinister, depending on how you look at it...and not that we'd ever want to become that kind of blog, heavens forbid!) here's the Fema Rap For Kids (courtesy of Mefi).  More on Katrina from a rhetoric/discourse-analysis tack here.

And on yet another note, some congratulations to Baghdad Burning are in order.

Comments

[josef k.]

Interesting that no-one as of yet seems to have been able to comment on this, but then, after watching this video, what could anybody meaningfully say? That in this, prima facie evidence presents itself of a situation which has in fact been apparent for some time now. A situation of pure horror, in the face of which, words fail. The question I believe now needs to start to be seriouly asked after: do we still all believe that there really will be an election in 2008? And even if there is, how likely really is it now - given the mechanisms and the manner behind everything that has so far occured in the context of this war, the history of it, stretching back - that it could really turn the tide?

do we still all believe that there really will be an election in 2008?

er, any reason in particular to believe there wouldn't be?

[Anthony Paul Smith]

I'm as apocalyptic as they come, really, but this video doesn't offer any kind of evidence. It shows images and then has overlying narrative that describes details we have no way of verifying. "New gas lines"? How do we know they are new?

I'm not above conspiracy theories, I just prefer that they play the game better. I've been hearing shit about camps since I was in grade school, but then it was Clinton who was going to round up the Chritians - now, who is going to round up who?

[Matt]

I have to agree with Anthony about this not being any sort of evidence.

[josef k.]

"Now, who is going to round up who?"

My fear is the "illegal aliens" which America has been hearing so much about lately.

[s0metim3s]

Actually, can anyone tell me offhand what the estimates are for the number of people rounded up under the Patriot Act?

[Anthony Paul Smith]

Angela,

Last I heard, 300 out of which most were let go or deported. That's still shit, but its not on the level of what this video is trying to suggest.

josef,

I don't think so-called illegal aliens are going to be rounded up. At least not by the current admin. Our economy is what it is only because of the work these folks do and those in power, despite this recent show in racism, know that. The interests of Capital will defeat this form of exclusionary racism in the interests of an exploitative racism.

[Amie]

anthony, do you not think that camps precisely put into question something of what normally passes for evidence and verification?
you say that 'you have been hearing shit about camps since you were in grade school.' perhaps you have then heard of those who deny that the Holocaust ever happened by dismissing all testimony and evidence of it as lacking in verification?

[Matt]

I suspect that Anthony has so heard.

And thank you for that comment, Amie, as I think you may be right in that it needed to be said.

[josef k.]

Anthony - perhaps then, the camps will be work camps?

[Jodi]

the site with the footage is down. that rots--I didn't see it.

? No, it's still there.

[Keith]

Relatedly, via Lenin.

[josef k.]

Meanwhile, pure Fuhrerprinzip evident here: http://www.slate.com/id/2138841/

[josef k.]

And here:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2006/3302alito_fuehrerprinzip.html

[Matt]

thanks for those cheery links, fellas.

[s0metim3s]

To be honest, I haven't got around to watching the vid - computer problems. So, my questions might seem rather tangential, for which I apologise.

Also, according to the INS figures for 2003 (from here), 2,761 people were detained overall. But am I right in recalling that, after some point, the INS or Homeland Security refused to release figures?

Anyway, I don't want to get caught up by a question of numbers. But the terms upon which verification can occur is nevertheless an issue.

Then there's the experience of those who've been 'released' from internment, and who are still in some form of detainment. Mamdouh Habib, for one.

And, on a related tangent.

Hey, that person just copied our blogroll but forgot to put most of our individual blogs on it. The nerve!

[Anthony Paul Smith]

No, camps do not throw into question what passes for verification. It's not as if America didn't know about the camps before we 'liberated' them. People had warned both Churchill and Roosevelt that they existed, they did nothing about them. If everyone had been killed then perhaps camps would throw into question what passes for verification, but comparing factory style death camps to a video showing an abandoned train yard, well, come on! You just compared me to a holocaust denier for saying that a poorly made conspiracy video presented no evidence, that's beyond fucked up and ridiculous.

Josef,

Sure, work camps. Maybe, but I really don't see the point that would serve and I don't think the majority in this country would put up with it. Perhaps when our economy collapses, the ecological decline passes its point of no return and civil war breaks out, then, yes I could see these camps coming into being. But that wasn't a video of a work camp! This isn't about whether or not the US government is capable of genocide (it's already committed it!) or illegal internment (it's currently engaged in it!) - this was a comment about a specific video that a) was badly made and presented no evidence to support its claims and b) posits a conspiracy theory when we already have more than enough to be worried about that is plainly visible.

For instance, Angela's tangential question is much more important, it literally matters more, than whether or not we're building camps (and, honestly, I don't think a camp situation would work in America, material conditions do change).

[josef k.]

Anthony,

"This was a comment about a specific video that a) was badly made and presented no evidence to support its claims and b) posits a conspiracy theory when we already have more than enough to be worried about that is plainly visible."

Granted - your points here are certainly cogent. I suppose my alarmism on this relates to the fact that I now no longer really see why an American government finding itself under pressure would stop at building camps - given all that which is already plainly visible. The fact that - as Jodi reports - it now apparently considers Indymedia to be a terrorist organization, for instance. And the fact, with regards to the legal justification for the War on Terror, the Fuhrerprinzep is currently in effect. Is really, currently in effect. And self-declared to be - no conspiracy theory whatsoever. Furthermore, striking historical parallels, I would suggest, between Zacharias Moussauoi and Marinus van der Lubbe.

As you write: "Perhaps when our economy collapses, the ecological decline passes its point of no return and civil war breaks out, then, yes I could see these camps coming into being." - I wonder how far away this really is. It is no secret how heavily America is presently in debt - particularly to China. At some point, its many creditors are going to start asking themselves whether or not they really want to hold onto those small return US Treasury bonds, or would they not rather prefer to convert them into material assets. And this will be an interesting political situation when it arises.

No, camps do not throw into question what passes for verification. It's not as if America didn't know about the camps before we 'liberated' them.

Due respect, I don't believe that's what Amie was referring to by "verification."

[Anthony Paul Smith]

Then what did she mean?

superstes?